Interesting notes on Electric cars premature? Page 2 PriusChat

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Interesting » Electric Cars

austingreen Senior Member

Not sure what are you trying to say here. Plugin market seems to be a … end until some major development comes in for the batteries. Numbers are horrible and nobody is meeting their goals.

I think Zythryn answered this. Plug-ins definitely are not …, they just had a bad month. The prius phv, Tesla S, Ford c-max and fusion Energi only short years and should sell much better than in 2012.

The leaf and volt both should do better in 2013 than 2012. After tripling in sales last year, plug-ins in the US should experience strong growth. The goals aren’t being met, they were set too high.

That doesn’t mean the market is not rapidly growing. Instead of Obama’s goal of 2015 for a million plug-ins it looks like 2017. I don’t think many thought 2015 was ever realistic.

Hybrid market share just grew 61% and will continue to go up as hybrid power trains end up being offered with every car. It is good for plugins too.

I expect some good growth for non-plug-in hybrids as well, but its going to be slower than in 2012. 2012 was coming off a bad year and 2013 was coming off a very good one. The two biggest hybrid hits were the prius c and redesigned camry both available most of the year. The c-max, redesigned fusion hybrid, and others that weren’t available should boost sales, but they won’t have nearly the impact of those other cars.

A big percentage might choose the Avalon hybrid over the Avalon but these are not likely to give a boost like the redesigned camry hybrid just because of the number of sales in the segment.

As to the hydrogen, it has a lot of problems which manufacturers like Toyota say are going to be solved by 2015. If that happens, then they will easily go over EVs with current batteries. If it doesnt, then there wont be hydrogen cars on sale, period.

Well Toyota in the article I also posted in fuel cell thread, said something like maybe in the 2020s or 2030s. Toyota has only said they are going to sell a fuel cell vehicle in 2015 at $50K. They have not said even the smallest challenges have been solved.

They have only said price is less of an issue. With a leaf after California and federal rebates going for less than $20K its hard to see how pricing is more of a problem for bevs than fuel cells.

NOw you are saying a strange thing about batteries. Toyota has had more press releases about battery price drops as has Tesla, Nissan, and GM. That also should happen much before there is a hydrogen fueling infrastructure.

Interesting » Electric Cars

As to the grant money, US invested billions into EV batteries and what happened? Money thrown into the wind, companies in chapter 11.

I never was for the battery grants, but your numbers are way off. The bankrupt battery makers took about $500M. Nissan, LG chem, Tesla, and Ford are not in chapter 11.

In Europe, it seems that plenty of countries will build basic network of hydrogen stations by 2015. Same will happen in California and few other states. Good thing about hydrogen is that they dont need that many.

In UK, they announced building 65 stations (by 2015) to cover major parts of the country and 3 minute/300 miles refueling.

See you in 2015. 65 stations is nothing for a country in infrastructure. Austin has 2 hydrogen stations and over 200 public charging stations. You can charge at home with plug-ins. How long does the prius phv or ampere need to refuel with gas?


How many stations are in England?

Well your reasonable prices for fuel cells are much more expensive than the too expensive prices for plug-ins. Use your words. Is $50K inexpensive for a fuel cell, but the prices for plug-ins expensive?

Interesting » Electric Cars
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